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i never got any money from you

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ufo might just as well stand for

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unprecedented financial opportunity

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[Applause]

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be normal

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this is the saucer life a podcast in

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which we examine concepts events or

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people orbiting the world of fine

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saucers few preconceptions snark when

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justified no belief no debunking this is

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the second part of our look at helmut

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and marion lammer's book millaps

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military mind control and alien

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abduction

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if you haven't listened to part one yet

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go back and do that we'll still be here

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when you're done if you choose to plow

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ahead without listening to the first

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part i'm not going to stop you but

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neither am i going to take any

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responsibility for any confusion on your

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part so this is where we left off

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in late 1996 austrian physicist and ufo

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researcher helmut lammer published an

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article in the mufon journal exploring

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the possibility that some alien

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abduction experiences were the result of

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military and intelligence agency mind

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control experimentation the article

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generated debate between those who are

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willing to consider lammers position and

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those who are not and we're picking up

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the story in november 1997.

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in the november 1997 edition of the

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mufon journal lammer published a

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follow-up article entitled more findings

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of project milab looking behind the

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alien military abduction agenda lammer

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begins the article by giving readers an

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update on what's happened since his

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since i published my preliminary

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findings of alleged alien abductees who

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experienced possible kidnappings by

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special military intelligence units i

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received new information especially from

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north american abductees and abduction

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researchers most of this information has

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not been previously published the

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responses i received after the first

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article was published show that there

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are more alleged alien abductees who

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have experienced unwanted human military

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contacts millabs during their lives

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in august 1997 i published an overview

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of the study co-authored by my wife in a

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comprehensive book entitled covert

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this is one of those things that has led

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to some confusion at least for me the

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subtitle of this book covert operations

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was military involvement in ufo

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abductions and as close as i can figure

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out this is an earlier german language

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version of the book that would become

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millabs military mind control and alien

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abduction he goes on to recap the

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findings from his first article and says

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that he believes there are three

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questions that open-minded researchers

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will want to explore after reading his

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update on the millab's research

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one is it possible that secret human

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experiments or covert operations are

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occurring in western democracies

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two what is the human agenda which seems

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to be involved in the alien abduction

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phenomenon and what is the purpose of

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mill labs military abductions of

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abductees

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three is there a military interest in

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developing brain implants virtual

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reality biochips holographic image

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projection cloaking devices and

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mind-altering weapons

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[Music]

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despite the fact that question 2 seems

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to just go ahead and assume the answer

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to question 1 is yes these are some

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pretty good questions if you are

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sort of invested in the military

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abduction

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paradigm that lammer has laid out and he

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argues

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at the end of this introduction that the

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existence of these technologies would

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quote support the hypothesis that such

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secret experiments could

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occur on humans and these experiments

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are being hidden from congress and the

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public by placing the funding inside

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secret or black budgets end quote we

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then get to the new material that lammer

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has for his mufon readers and the first

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section is headed documented history of

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secret mind and behavior control

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experiments

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and he puts his cards on the table

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pretty quickly and pretty resolutely

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everyone who refuses to believe that

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secret experiments and covert operations

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have been performed on people including

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children should look at the documented

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history of military intelligence

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radiation experiments as well as mind

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and behavior control experiments which

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are now known to the public in addition

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to the united states and canada the

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british press reported that even the

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ministry of defense has carried out

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secret radiation experiments on humans

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during the last 40 years

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so this is an argument that i don't

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necessarily like i get it i i don't

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necessarily like though

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the

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presumption maybe that

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because

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undisclosed secret horrible experiments

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have taken place in the past

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that the answer to the abduction

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question must be secret horrible

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horrific

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experiment so i'm not saying it's not

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possible but i'm just saying it's

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it's not necessarily

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a

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syllogism i guess if i'm using the word

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syllogism correctly which i might not be

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one of the things i liked about this

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little bit here was that

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you know in addition to the us and

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canada even the british ministry of

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defense why the emphasis on even the

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ministry of defense i mean

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are we somehow surprised that the

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british have done things that are as

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reprehensible as the americans and

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canadians have done does lammer here

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exhibit some kind of

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european sensibility that oh my gosh

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we're not nearly as bad as those

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colonials over in the western hemisphere

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but even the british have done things

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like this

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lamr goes through a number of things

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that

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in 2022 are

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fairly well known by people who pay

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attention to things like this but in

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1997 were a little

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newer

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they hadn't been some of them hadn't

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been declassified for as long so

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radiation experiments nerve gas

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experiments lsd and biological agent

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experiments hammer points out that the

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people on whom these experiments were

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conducted were prisoners soldiers

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people with mental and physical

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disabilities hospital patients with

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terminal illnesses pregnant women often

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poor

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which we we know we know that and it's

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it's awful he um

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doesn't pull any punches he refers to

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these experiments as nazi-like uh he

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name drops one of the

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significant names in this whole sorry

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history dr ewan cameron

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at mcgill university which was

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funded by the cia or these experiments

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were funded by the cia i'm not saying

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mcgill was completely funded by the cia

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talks about electroconvulsive therapy

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all sorts of things in the united states

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canada and great britain that

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you know sort of went on during

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the 40s through

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you know into into the 80s in some cases

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he also describes a 1997

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video

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sort of

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set of or set of video depositions or

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testimony sent to president clinton by

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an organization called the advocacy

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committee for human experimentation

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survivors hyphen mind control and this

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was sort of horrific testimony from

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people who believed themselves to be

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victims of government mind control

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experiments children

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and adults

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lammer admits that

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quote their victims do not report

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alleged alien ufo contacts like milab

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victims report but some of the milab

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experiences also fit the pattern of

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abuse described by alleged mind control

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victims so lammer is being very upfront

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about the fact that no this videotape

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full of testimony from mind control

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experimentation victims does not

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describe a bunch of abduction scenarios

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but there are similarities in the

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pattern of abuse that both groups of

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victims have experienced

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and then

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in the next section he moves on to

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address a possible purpose of the

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millaps and he acknowledges that the

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issue might be more complex than he

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believed at first and he believes that

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there are possibly three different

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groups with differing agendas that are

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behind the military abduction phenomenon

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it seems to me that the first group is

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interested in mind and behavior control

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experiments i found indications of

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sensory deprivation experiments liquid

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breathing experiments experiments on

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electromagnetic stimulation of temporal

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lobes brain research and implant

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research

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[Music]

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so this group is the straight-up

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old-fashioned

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what you think of when you think of mind

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control we are going to mess with your

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brain we're going to mess with the

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biological things in your

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head

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psychological physical

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whatever and we are going to

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figure out how to control or manipulate

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or

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you know get what we want from your

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brain

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there's a second group and

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their objectives might be a little

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different

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a second group seems to be interested in

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biological or genetic research

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some milab victims recall seeing humans

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and tubes filled with liquid and

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genetically altered animals in cages

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during their alleged kidnappings inside

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military underground facilities it

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should be noted that alien abductees

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without military contacts also remember

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similar scenarios inside ufos or alleged

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so this one very much reminds me of of

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things like stories of the dulce

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underground base the dulce report and

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things like that with strange hybrid

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creatures

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being kept in cages and suspended in

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tubes of liquid yeah really sort of

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reminds me of that in a lot of ways

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there's a third group as well

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the third group seems to be a military

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task force which has been operating

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since the 80s this group appears to be

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interested in the ufo alien abduction

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phenomenon for information gathering

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purposes this would be a logical

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consequence of someone or a group of

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people with the need to know considers

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alien abductions to be real it seems to

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me that the leaders of this military

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task force believe that some alien

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abductions are real and that they have

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national security implications it could

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be that the second and third group are

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working together because they could

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share their interest in genetic studies

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and their findings from alleged alien

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00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:49,990
all right it might be a little early in

287
00:10:53,190 --> 00:10:52,480
the episode for this kind of analysis

288
00:10:55,269 --> 00:10:53,200
but

289
00:10:57,910 --> 00:10:55,279
what i'm looking at here with these

290
00:11:00,870 --> 00:10:57,920
three groups or these three groups with

291
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:00,880
competing agendas we have mind control

292
00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:03,600
experiments including implants

293
00:11:07,829 --> 00:11:05,760
we've got

294
00:11:09,829 --> 00:11:07,839
genetic experimentation

295
00:11:11,030 --> 00:11:09,839
some underground bases

296
00:11:13,269 --> 00:11:11,040
we've got

297
00:11:15,350 --> 00:11:13,279
tubes filled with liquid and beings

298
00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:15,360
inside we've got strange creatures and

299
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:17,760
cages and we've got the military seeking

300
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:19,519
intelligence and all this because deep

301
00:11:24,949 --> 00:11:22,320
down they know that abductions are real

302
00:11:28,310 --> 00:11:24,959
and a threat to national security

303
00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:28,320
i'm seeing a lot of similarities in some

304
00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:29,839
ways with

305
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:34,640
the classic late 1980s early 1990s oh

306
00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:35,680
krill

307
00:11:40,550 --> 00:11:36,959
john lear

308
00:11:42,389 --> 00:11:40,560
sort of scenario it's not identical

309
00:11:45,430 --> 00:11:42,399
the motives are different the players

310
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:45,440
are different you're missing some of the

311
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:48,399
big picture cosmic scale globalist

312
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:52,000
conspiracy type of thing that's going on

313
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:54,480
in those other documents

314
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:55,279
but

315
00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:57,600
all the pieces are there if that makes

316
00:12:01,829 --> 00:11:59,680
sense all the pieces are there ready to

317
00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:01,839
be rearranged or having been rearranged

318
00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:05,120
rather from the earlier scenario um i'm

319
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:07,200
not saying that lammer is

320
00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:08,880
sort of consciously

321
00:12:13,829 --> 00:12:10,560
remixing

322
00:12:17,430 --> 00:12:13,839
things into a different theory i'm sort

323
00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:17,440
of saying that it's incredibly hard to

324
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:19,680
get away from

325
00:12:24,949 --> 00:12:23,279
the basics of the scenario and

326
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:24,959
you've got testimony coming from people

327
00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:26,720
under hypnosis as we're going to hear

328
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:29,360
some examples of very quickly here or

329
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:31,360
very soon not very quickly

330
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:32,160
and

331
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:33,279
i don't know

332
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:36,079
as as much as the the mind control

333
00:12:40,629 --> 00:12:39,279
aspect of this appeals to me as a

334
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:40,639
possibly more

335
00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:42,959
logical realistic explanation than

336
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:44,880
straight up alien abduction

337
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:45,760
i

338
00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:55,279
that

339
00:13:00,069 --> 00:12:57,680
we don't necessarily know what people

340
00:13:01,269 --> 00:13:00,079
experienced and hypnosis is not always

341
00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:01,279
the best way

342
00:13:05,829 --> 00:13:03,680
to get it but let's move on to the next

343
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:05,839
section where he he talks about tank and

344
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:08,800
tube experiences and in this section he

345
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:11,120
shares the story of a woman known as

346
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:13,600
michelle now lammer starts off his

347
00:13:17,829 --> 00:13:15,839
explanation of michelle's experiences by

348
00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:17,839
saying that she had been abducted by

349
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:19,519
aliens all the way back to the age of

350
00:13:24,550 --> 00:13:22,880
eight being sort of taken by beings who

351
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:24,560
are three to four feet tall with large

352
00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:27,120
heads she he calls them classic alien

353
00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:30,000
abduction experiences but he says that

354
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:32,079
what happened to her that brought her to

355
00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:34,639
his attention had nothing to do with

356
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:37,760
alien experiences but were

357
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:40,240
consciously remembered milab events he

358
00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:42,079
says quote the memory gaps were

359
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:45,040
investigated by a phd hypnotherapist and

360
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:47,199
mufon consultant with the use of

361
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:49,440
regressive hypnosis

362
00:13:55,189 --> 00:13:52,560
this hypnotherapist does have a name we

363
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:55,199
will get to that name later and some of

364
00:14:00,629 --> 00:13:58,320
the things he has said later it's uh

365
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:00,639
it's nobody i had ever heard of um when

366
00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:03,040
i first read this article and it just

367
00:14:07,990 --> 00:14:06,000
said an unnamed phd hypnotherapist my

368
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:08,000
mind instantly went to the late leo

369
00:14:11,910 --> 00:14:09,519
sprinkle because he seems to show up

370
00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:11,920
everywhere um where the stuff uh where

371
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:13,920
this stuff happens but back to the story

372
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:16,320
of michelle so michelle and a boyfriend

373
00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:18,720
had a missing time slash kidnapping

374
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:22,240
experience in 1970 near

375
00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:23,680
a campsite

376
00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:27,199
in montauk new york yes that montauk

377
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:29,120
montauk experiment

378
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:32,240
montauk um a listener emailed me saying

379
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:33,360
did you know

380
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:35,600
that this article talks about montauk

381
00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:38,560
and i um i said yes i've never really

382
00:14:43,269 --> 00:14:41,279
gotten into the montauk thing and um he

383
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:43,279
and i corresponded a bit and the upshot

384
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:45,600
is i've ordered a bunch of montauk books

385
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:47,839
by um

386
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:49,199
preston nichols i can't remember his

387
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:50,880
name but they're on their way i will

388
00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:53,120
probably be doing a montauk episode at

389
00:14:57,990 --> 00:14:55,680
some point um it's a really fun story

390
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:58,000
i've just never sort of had time to get

391
00:15:02,310 --> 00:15:00,240
into it so i'll make the time you make

392
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:02,320
time for things that matter right so

393
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:05,120
back to michelle she recalls that

394
00:15:09,189 --> 00:15:07,279
both she and her boyfriend were taken by

395
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:09,199
armed military personnel to the now

396
00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:11,760
closed montauk base i think camp hero is

397
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:13,760
that the name i think after they were

398
00:15:18,310 --> 00:15:16,160
separated michelle was escorted inside

399
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:18,320
an underground facility where she had

400
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:21,839
several frightening experiences

401
00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:23,920
she remembers being in an examination

402
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:25,760
room with machines stainless steel

403
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:28,079
equipment and a table covered in white

404
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:29,519
michelle was placed on the table and

405
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,680
strapped down after a few minutes a

406
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:33,360
group of five to six people including

407
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:35,360
one female came into the room

408
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:36,720
all of them were medical clothes

409
00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:39,199
consisting of white gowns surgical masks

410
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:41,360
covered their faces they turned her head

411
00:15:45,269 --> 00:15:43,040
sideways and shaved a small portion of

412
00:15:47,509 --> 00:15:45,279
her head behind her right ear she was

413
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:47,519
completely conscious but was immobilized

414
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:49,519
and she could not speak

415
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:50,959
michelle remembers that someone was

416
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:52,639
writing something on the skin behind her

417
00:15:57,030 --> 00:15:54,880
ear after this she got an intravenous

418
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:57,040
injection she felt a prick in her arm

419
00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:58,560
and lost consciousness and awoke with

420
00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:00,560
her boyfriend who was also kidnapped

421
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:02,320
later on the beach

422
00:16:06,069 --> 00:16:04,079
the next hypnosis session revealed more

423
00:16:07,509 --> 00:16:06,079
traumatic flashbacks of being in an

424
00:16:08,710 --> 00:16:07,519
isolation tank

425
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:08,720
the following experience was

426
00:16:12,629 --> 00:16:10,079
investigated during an emotional

427
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:12,639
hypnosis regression session michelle has

428
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:14,160
never had this experience while under

429
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:16,480
hypnosis before she recalled being in a

430
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:18,320
dark place while she floated in

431
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:19,839
something that felt slightly heavier

432
00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:21,519
than warm water

433
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:23,360
before this experience michelle recalled

434
00:16:27,670 --> 00:16:25,600
being naked on a table she had wires

435
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:27,680
attached all over her body and she saw a

436
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:29,600
doctor in a white lab coat standing next

437
00:16:34,150 --> 00:16:31,920
to her the next experience was uncovered

438
00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:34,160
via a deep trans regression which probed

439
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:36,639
again into the isolation tank experience

440
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:38,240
michelle remembered once again that she

441
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,240
was in a black enclosed area where she

442
00:16:44,550 --> 00:16:42,480
struggled and was afraid of drowning

443
00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:44,560
the experience scared her a lot and she

444
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:46,639
wanted out of the tank she felt that the

445
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:48,800
liquid was heavier than water was warm

446
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:51,199
and smelled of a minty odor she was able

447
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:52,720
to move her arms and legs slightly as

448
00:16:56,550 --> 00:16:54,800
well as her head she felt the smooth

449
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:56,560
surface of the isolation tank on her

450
00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:58,639
right when she stretched out her arm she

451
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:00,720
was completely isolated in the dark tank

452
00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:02,480
when a kind of artificially induced out

453
00:17:09,909 --> 00:17:05,360
of body experience began or she began to

454
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:11,829
lammer segues from there into a

455
00:17:16,829 --> 00:17:13,600
discussion of

456
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:16,839
liquid breathing experiments and sensory

457
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:20,000
deprivation tank experiences and or

458
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:22,240
experiments rather which could also be

459
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:26,160
experiences and he argues that it sounds

460
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:28,640
a lot like what michelle

461
00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:30,000
experienced

462
00:17:34,630 --> 00:17:32,160
he also talks about michelle's

463
00:17:36,789 --> 00:17:34,640
experiences another aspect of it where

464
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:36,799
she described being taken by military

465
00:17:41,430 --> 00:17:38,640
personnel into a dark

466
00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:41,440
room like an office and she was raped by

467
00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:44,320
a reptiloid creature

468
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:46,320
lammer says quote i don't know what this

469
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:48,960
traumatic experience means i don't think

470
00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:50,640
however that the military worked with

471
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,720
this reptoid creature

472
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:54,480
it could be possible that michelle was

473
00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:55,840
drugged with a hallucinogen and

474
00:17:59,750 --> 00:17:57,600
projected the reptoid as a kind of

475
00:18:02,070 --> 00:17:59,760
screen memory although she described the

476
00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:02,080
skin and other features of the creature

477
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:04,400
quite realistically end quote and we

478
00:18:08,549 --> 00:18:06,880
will have more of that explanation of

479
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:08,559
the creature's appearance

480
00:18:13,350 --> 00:18:11,120
later when we get to the milabs book

481
00:18:16,789 --> 00:18:13,360
itself and i do want to point out i did

482
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:16,799
not misspeak he says reptiloid

483
00:18:22,549 --> 00:18:20,400
first and then reptoid twice so that

484
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:22,559
bugged me i went back and checked that i

485
00:18:26,710 --> 00:18:24,960
wasn't misspeaking he used two different

486
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:26,720
words so i just want to make sure that

487
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:29,600
you all know that i am quoting him

488
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:31,120
correctly

489
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:33,600
he goes on to discuss other known

490
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:35,600
experimentation that has taken place by

491
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:38,400
scientists that could mimic elements of

492
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:40,720
the alien abduction experience and one

493
00:18:44,070 --> 00:18:42,480
citation he has is the work of dr

494
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:44,080
michael persinger

495
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:46,960
of um canada laurentian university who

496
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:48,320
quote demonstrated that one can

497
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:49,679
artificially produce mystical

498
00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:51,760
experiences out of body excursions and

499
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:54,080
other psychic experiences by stimulating

500
00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:56,000
the temporal lobes with an application

501
00:19:02,150 --> 00:18:59,200
of magnetic fields across the brain so

502
00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:02,160
there is precedent for

503
00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:04,720
strange brain events being

504
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:07,840
elicited in laboratory situations

505
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:08,880
so

506
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:12,720
literature about liquid breathing you

507
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:14,640
know beings in these sort of sealed

508
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:16,640
liquid tanks there's lots of information

509
00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:19,039
about sensory deprivation experiences he

510
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:21,120
talks about other abductees like betty

511
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:23,280
andreasen who reported being placed

512
00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:26,160
inside a tube filled with liquid

513
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:27,280
so

514
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:29,120
he says basically

515
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:36,950
terrestrial scientific experimentation

516
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:38,400
that at least

517
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:40,640
reflects or

518
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:43,200
mimics or is a bit like

519
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:44,640
what's going on

520
00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:46,880
on these spaceships

521
00:19:51,909 --> 00:19:49,120
we work towards the conclusion at this

522
00:19:54,870 --> 00:19:51,919
point um turk talks a bit about virtual

523
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:54,880
reality brain implants because it's 1997

524
00:19:58,710 --> 00:19:55,919
and of course we're talking about

525
00:20:01,990 --> 00:19:58,720
virtual reality and he

526
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:02,000
eventually gets to a conclusion

527
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:03,600
one can assume that similar secret

528
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:05,280
military research projects are being

529
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:06,960
conducted for biological and genetic

530
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:09,440
warfare projects if we speculate that a

531
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:11,120
core of the alien abduction phenomenon

532
00:20:14,549 --> 00:20:13,200
is indeed real the same people who are

533
00:20:17,029 --> 00:20:14,559
behind these projects would have an

534
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:17,039
interest in alien biology genetics and

535
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:18,799
mind control procedures

536
00:20:22,630 --> 00:20:20,400
since these research operations appear

537
00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:22,640
to be hidden behind deep black projects

538
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:24,159
only certain people with the right need

539
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:25,520
to know would really know what's going

540
00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:26,320
on

541
00:20:29,350 --> 00:20:27,760
there's also the main problem for

542
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:29,360
organizations who push for congressional

543
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:31,200
hearings concerning such experiments on

544
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:33,360
humans secret genetic research and

545
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:34,960
military involvement in the alien

546
00:20:38,789 --> 00:20:36,799
abduction phenomenon

547
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:38,799
such projects are unacknowledged special

548
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:40,400
access programs like the stealth

549
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:42,400
projects were therefore most of the

550
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:44,400
elected politicians do not know that

551
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,799
this kind of research is being conducted

552
00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:48,480
we must keep in mind that most milab

553
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:50,000
victims claim they have seen alien

554
00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:51,679
beings and human military personnel

555
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:53,520
working side by side

556
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:54,720
these claims should be carefully

557
00:20:58,950 --> 00:20:56,880
investigated we need more research

558
00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:58,960
before one definitely concludes that

559
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:01,440
alien beings and military personnel are

560
00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:08,149
well yes of course we should but

561
00:21:12,870 --> 00:21:10,720
it's easy to say that at the end of your

562
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:12,880
two very long articles where you

563
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:14,080
basically

564
00:21:18,630 --> 00:21:16,960
sort of set this whole thing up

565
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:18,640
i don't know i mean i

566
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:21,120
i'm not calling into question his

567
00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:22,960
sort of motives or anything but it just

568
00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:23,919
seems like

569
00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:26,080
you throw out all of this

570
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:28,799
very kind of sinister sexy

571
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:30,720
government mind control stuff the

572
00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:33,440
parallel to aliens and alien abduction

573
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:34,799
experiences

574
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:35,679
the

575
00:21:42,789 --> 00:21:40,400
alien abductees but also have been

576
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:42,799
subject to these mill abs and then at

577
00:21:47,110 --> 00:21:44,159
the end of it you say yeah but we should

578
00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:47,120
be careful which yes you should

579
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:49,280
but um and i'm not saying he presented

580
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:52,240
it in a super lurid way or anything like

581
00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:54,720
that i'm just saying you're letting some

582
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:57,200
genies out of some bottles here dr

583
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:59,120
lammer and

584
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,679
it might not be enough to just say but

585
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:03,360
you know we should all be very careful

586
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:06,640
before we speculate too much

587
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:07,679
so

588
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:09,360
let's take a break and then we're going

589
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:12,720
to come back and look at the book itself

590
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:14,320
and

591
00:22:20,260 --> 00:22:16,960
talk about some of the response to the

592
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:20,270
book from various quarters

593
00:22:27,909 --> 00:22:26,549
we'll be back in a week fielding your

594
00:22:29,909 --> 00:22:27,919
questions and comments about this

595
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:29,919
episode so be sure to get those into us

596
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:31,280
in the comments under this episode on

597
00:22:37,070 --> 00:22:33,760
the website on social media or through

598
00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:37,080
email at thesaucerlife

599
00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:39,200
gmail.com and of course we're on social

600
00:22:43,510 --> 00:22:40,480
media on twitter

601
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,520
on instagram at saucerlife and if you go

602
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:45,360
to facebook and search for the

603
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:47,760
saucerlife podcast you'll find us that

604
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:48,559
way

605
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:50,240
then on our next regular episode we're

606
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:52,799
going to begin our periodic look at the

607
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:55,840
story of shoichi harakawa a japanese

608
00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:57,840
contactee whose accounts were collected

609
00:23:02,230 --> 00:23:00,080
in the newsletter of japan's branch of

610
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:02,240
the adamski get acquainted program we

611
00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:04,640
looked at some issues of this magazine

612
00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:07,200
or newsletter back in

613
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:10,640
late 2021 it's too much for one episode

614
00:23:15,190 --> 00:23:13,440
but a bunch of these in a row would get

615
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:15,200
sort of tedious so i'm going to be

616
00:23:20,830 --> 00:23:17,440
sprinkling bits of the story of shoiichi

617
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:20,840
harakawa in your podcast feed throughout

618
00:23:25,430 --> 00:23:23,120
2022 and we doubt you've missed it but

619
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:25,440
the chiso media patreon has launched

620
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,760
over at patreon.com

621
00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:29,280
chiso media or if you go to

622
00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:31,120
chizzomedia.com

623
00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:33,440
you can find it there as well and just

624
00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:34,640
to tell you some of the stuff that's

625
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:35,679
coming up

626
00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:36,640
on the

627
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:42,559
bonus episode for february is me

628
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:44,400
i don't say torturing the saucer wife

629
00:23:49,269 --> 00:23:46,480
but maybe torturing the saucer wife by

630
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:49,279
making her watch and comment on

631
00:23:53,669 --> 00:23:52,080
both the the old found footage film the

632
00:23:58,149 --> 00:23:53,679
macpherson tape

633
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:58,159
as well as the 1997-1998

634
00:24:04,149 --> 00:24:00,640
remake of the mcpherson tape that was

635
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:04,159
broadcast on upn if anybody else

636
00:24:10,149 --> 00:24:07,360
remembers upn there is a video field

637
00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:10,159
trip this month as my great lakes lore

638
00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:12,400
co-host samantha and i

639
00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:15,279
assess the state of the paranormal and

640
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:17,760
ufological

641
00:24:21,750 --> 00:24:19,360
selection in

642
00:24:24,230 --> 00:24:21,760
mid-michigan uh spoiler

643
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:24,240
i found some really cool stuff but i was

644
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:26,640
worried for a bit that i wouldn't uh

645
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:28,400
there's also um

646
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:31,039
sort of post-recording wrap-ups of sort

647
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:33,520
of extended episode material and things

648
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:36,320
like that a lot of great stuff research

649
00:24:41,190 --> 00:24:38,720
blog posts some photos

650
00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:41,200
check it out if you uh if you like and

651
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:43,039
thank you to those who are currently

652
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:45,360
supporting us you can as always check

653
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:47,039
out past episodes of the show in your

654
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:49,760
podcast app or at saucerlife.com i told

655
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:51,760
you where we are on the social media but

656
00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:54,720
you can also send us postal mail at

657
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:57,840
chiso media po box 68 grand blank

658
00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:01,120
michigan 484

659
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:03,360
and now back to the program

660
00:25:07,460 --> 00:25:05,600
the disturbing government mind control

661
00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:07,470
program

662
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:15,190
all right now on to the book itself

663
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:18,080
finally although i've got to say

664
00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:19,840
that

665
00:25:26,710 --> 00:25:23,600
as a proportion of the episodes about

666
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:26,720
millabs by helmut and marion lammer

667
00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:28,400
i think the least

668
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:31,600
big chunk of the content is going to be

669
00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:34,000
about the book itself now partially this

670
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:36,720
is because well not partially mostly

671
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:38,720
absolutely it's because the structure of

672
00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:40,799
the book the basic argument

673
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:43,279
most of the evidence is the same as what

674
00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:46,000
lammer presented in his mufon journal

675
00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:48,240
articles um and he throws in his

676
00:25:52,149 --> 00:25:50,400
rejoinders to victoria alexander and his

677
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:52,159
counter arguments to her critiques of

678
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:53,919
his work there are some good additions

679
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:55,360
and expansions that we're going to look

680
00:26:01,029 --> 00:25:58,480
at but the thing i want to mention first

681
00:26:02,870 --> 00:26:01,039
and you can sort of follow along on some

682
00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:02,880
social media posts or at the website if

683
00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:04,640
you want to take a look at this is

684
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:08,240
the cover of this book is something to

685
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:10,400
behold um

686
00:26:15,029 --> 00:26:12,799
at the top we have millabs colon and

687
00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:15,039
then at the bottom military mind control

688
00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:17,279
and alien abduction

689
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:19,200
the bottom half of the title the

690
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:21,120
subtitle is

691
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:22,799
very heavily

692
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:25,360
drop shadowed it's like somebody figured

693
00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:27,679
out the drop shadow tool on a graphic

694
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:30,720
editing program and just lost their tiny

695
00:26:33,909 --> 00:26:31,600
mind

696
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:33,919
and the graphic

697
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:35,039
is

698
00:26:39,750 --> 00:26:37,360
sort of i think it took me a while of

699
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,760
staring at this to finally figure out

700
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:41,520
what i was looking at but what this is

701
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:43,840
is it looks like a military helicopter

702
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:46,640
pilot sort of got the the helmet with

703
00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:49,360
the sort of heavy duty microphone

704
00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:51,760
curving down um

705
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:56,000
except it's a gray alien face wearing or

706
00:27:00,390 --> 00:26:58,320
head wearing the helmet except the grey

707
00:27:02,549 --> 00:27:00,400
alien is sort of a

708
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:02,559
pinkish peachy

709
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:04,720
white person flesh tone

710
00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:07,679
color which is really really

711
00:27:10,470 --> 00:27:08,799
troubling

712
00:27:12,870 --> 00:27:10,480
another thing that gets me about this

713
00:27:16,149 --> 00:27:12,880
cover it's not just the

714
00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:16,159
design choice of the not quite a gray

715
00:27:22,549 --> 00:27:18,559
alien and military helicopter pilot

716
00:27:25,669 --> 00:27:22,559
outfit it's the fact that the image is

717
00:27:29,909 --> 00:27:25,679
horribly pixelated it is

718
00:27:32,389 --> 00:27:29,919
to the point where i wondered if they

719
00:27:34,549 --> 00:27:32,399
were going for some sort of french

720
00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:34,559
impressionist thing

721
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:36,559
it's weird but

722
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:39,679
i've got to say that i own a lot of

723
00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:41,520
books that were published by illuminet

724
00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:43,520
press back in the day and they are some

725
00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:46,000
of my some of my absolute favorite and

726
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:49,440
most treasured pieces of ufological and

727
00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:50,880
parapolitical

728
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:52,960
content that i own

729
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:54,880
but i do have to say with very few

730
00:27:59,190 --> 00:27:56,960
exceptions

731
00:28:01,990 --> 00:27:59,200
the book covers were not

732
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,000
were not great i think and i don't know

733
00:28:07,269 --> 00:28:04,799
if there's a reason for this but i think

734
00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:07,279
ken thomas's books with them i always

735
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:08,880
liked the

736
00:28:13,350 --> 00:28:11,440
the illustrations on those but but some

737
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:13,360
of them some of the jim keith books the

738
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:14,960
covers were just

739
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:17,279
we're just not great and i think the

740
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:20,480
millaps book is the not greatest of them

741
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:22,080
all okay

742
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:24,159
complaining about the cover aside like i

743
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:26,720
said it's it's very much structurally

744
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:29,200
evidence-wise argument-wise the same as

745
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:30,480
what was presented

746
00:28:33,750 --> 00:28:32,720
in those original articles in the mufon

747
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:33,760
journal

748
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:36,159
the introduction in the illuminate press

749
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:38,640
published united states version of the

750
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:40,559
book is by

751
00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:43,120
underground base expert richard souter

752
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:45,440
and in my opinion it's a little dull it

753
00:28:48,549 --> 00:28:46,960
mostly talks about

754
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:48,559
underground bases

755
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:50,240
but the original introduction from the

756
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:52,880
german version was by abductee katharina

757
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:55,200
wilson and somehow this introduction

758
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:56,480
found its way

759
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,919
onto the internet back in 1999 and it's

760
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:01,440
good it talks about you know a little

761
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:03,360
bit about her experiences and things and

762
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:06,880
she closes it with a sort of selection

763
00:29:11,669 --> 00:29:09,520
well designed to ramp up tension in

764
00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:11,679
readers

765
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:13,600
millaps is a well-researched chronicle

766
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:15,200
of clandestine activities that have been

767
00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:17,120
occurring for many decades helmut and

768
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:18,720
marion lammer have been resolute in

769
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:20,320
their search for the truth from the

770
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:21,919
pages of mill labs will emerge the

771
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:24,240
voices of the survivors the survivors of

772
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:26,399
manipulation in its worst form

773
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:27,840
in these pages you will learn how

774
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:29,360
physiological and psychological

775
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:31,679
experiments were and still are performed

776
00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:33,600
on the unwitting the innocent and the

777
00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:36,240
unsuspecting who are these victims we

778
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:38,240
are people just like you we are your

779
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:40,480
neighbors your co-workers your brothers

780
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:42,480
and sisters and even your children

781
00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:44,320
after reading millaps you will never

782
00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:46,240
take the truth or your freedom for

783
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:55,669
so this is good it generates empathy in

784
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:57,919
the reader you know we're not weirdos

785
00:30:01,750 --> 00:30:00,480
we're not just out here looking for

786
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:01,760
attention

787
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:03,120
we could be

788
00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:12,080
you meet anybody you know could be one

789
00:30:16,389 --> 00:30:14,640
of the people who's been victimized in

790
00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:16,399
this way

791
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:17,919
lammer also

792
00:30:21,669 --> 00:30:19,760
talks about the

793
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:21,679
the work of dan wright and he does this

794
00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:23,520
in the mufon journal as well dan wright

795
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:25,840
was the head of mufon's abduction

796
00:30:29,909 --> 00:30:28,640
transcription project which sort of

797
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:29,919
catalogued

798
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:33,760
all kinds of accounts of alien abduction

799
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:36,559
hypnos hypnosis and testimony and things

800
00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:39,200
like that and here in sort of the

801
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:41,520
opening chapter of the mill lapse book

802
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:44,159
lammer presents something from wright

803
00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:49,440
about common themes in abduction cases

804
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:52,240
one a strong interest in human sexuality

805
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:53,760
and reproduction

806
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:56,320
two a belief in an alien connection born

807
00:30:59,509 --> 00:30:58,159
in a realm ostensibly outside this

808
00:31:02,230 --> 00:30:59,519
conscious life

809
00:31:05,509 --> 00:31:02,240
three a mission to perform at some point

810
00:31:07,269 --> 00:31:05,519
in the near future four geophysical and

811
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:07,279
other dramatic changes to the earth are

812
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:09,360
shown to abductees

813
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:11,760
five the us government's involvement and

814
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:14,640
or acquiescence in alien abductions

815
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:16,480
one can see from dan wright's analysis

816
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:18,720
that he also came across milab cases and

817
00:31:21,669 --> 00:31:20,159
that he also believes that some

818
00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:21,679
government group is involved in the

819
00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:24,000
alien abduction phenomenon

820
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:25,279
in the following chapters we will

821
00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:27,360
present more details and cases that

822
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:29,360
provide insights into a secret human

823
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:38,549
so i think what lammer or the lammers

824
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:41,200
rather are doing here in presenting the

825
00:31:44,549 --> 00:31:43,679
findings of of dan wright

826
00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:44,559
are

827
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:49,039
not the only ones who have seen this

828
00:31:54,389 --> 00:31:51,760
overlap between the military aspect and

829
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:54,399
the extraterrestrial aspect

830
00:31:58,630 --> 00:31:57,039
of alien abductions or the abduction

831
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:58,640
phenomenon let's leave the word alien

832
00:32:01,190 --> 00:32:00,399
out of it just right there

833
00:32:02,230 --> 00:32:01,200
and

834
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:02,240
that

835
00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:04,159
there are others who have experienced

836
00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:06,880
these things and if not

837
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:09,600
being endemic to the abduction

838
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:14,320
phenomenon a terrestrial military aspect

839
00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:15,760
is not

840
00:32:19,509 --> 00:32:17,279
unheard of

841
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:19,519
so one of the things that the lammers

842
00:32:22,549 --> 00:32:21,120
expand upon

843
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:22,559
from the

844
00:32:29,669 --> 00:32:25,440
mufon articles to this book form is the

845
00:32:31,350 --> 00:32:29,679
story of michelle that we learned about

846
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:31,360
we learned additional things we learned

847
00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:33,760
for example that the phd hypnotherapist

848
00:32:37,509 --> 00:32:35,840
and mufon consultant mentioned in the

849
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:37,519
article was a doctor

850
00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:38,720
kuguel

851
00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:41,120
no first name given in the book and i do

852
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:43,200
not know if i am pronouncing that name

853
00:32:50,389 --> 00:32:49,190
so

854
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:50,399
kaguel

855
00:32:55,909 --> 00:32:54,240
is um how i interpreted it

856
00:32:58,389 --> 00:32:55,919
with my luck it's probably something

857
00:33:00,070 --> 00:32:58,399
extremely straightforward like kogel or

858
00:33:03,269 --> 00:33:00,080
something like that

859
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:03,279
so who is dr cagwell we don't learn much

860
00:33:08,149 --> 00:33:05,039
about him in the book but

861
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:08,159
i did some deep investigation

862
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:10,720
by which i threw the words kaguel and

863
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:12,720
alien abduction into

864
00:33:19,269 --> 00:33:15,760
the google machine and i figured out i

865
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:19,279
learned that dr coogwell is

866
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:22,080
very probably in fact not probably is

867
00:33:27,029 --> 00:33:24,799
absolutely dr maurice coogwell a

868
00:33:29,430 --> 00:33:27,039
hypnotherapist who founded the brookside

869
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:29,440
center for counseling and hypnotherapy

870
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:31,840
in exeter new hampshire which reminds me

871
00:33:36,149 --> 00:33:33,360
we're going to have an exeter new

872
00:33:37,909 --> 00:33:36,159
hampshire episode at some point not

873
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:37,919
about the brookside center for

874
00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:39,600
counseling and hypnotherapy about the

875
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:42,320
the ufo sighting there so this is a bit

876
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,039
of a digression which of course we know

877
00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:47,760
are not a saucer life thing but i found

878
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:50,080
some interesting stuff on the brookside

879
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:52,240
center for counseling and hypnotherapy

880
00:33:58,470 --> 00:33:55,120
website in particular i was drawn to the

881
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:58,480
hypnosis frequently asked questions page

882
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:00,240
for example this question jumped out at

883
00:34:05,269 --> 00:34:02,720
me is it possible to have thoughts

884
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:05,279
implanted in my mind

885
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:07,279
the capacity to influence people to do

886
00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:09,359
something against their will exists

887
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:10,960
there is no doubt that people can be

888
00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:12,560
manipulated into doing things against

889
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:14,000
their will and even against their

890
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:16,000
systems of value and belief

891
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:17,520
although techniques of brainwashing

892
00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:19,280
exist they are not in the realm of

893
00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:21,119
clinical hypnosis and the ethics as

894
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:23,359
practiced in clinical situations

895
00:34:26,470 --> 00:34:24,879
it is known that people have done things

896
00:34:31,589 --> 00:34:26,480
against their will when mechanical

897
00:34:36,149 --> 00:34:33,510
well that's comforting you go in for

898
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:36,159
some clinical hypnotherapy and you say

899
00:34:40,629 --> 00:34:38,399
you know is it possible to have thoughts

900
00:34:42,790 --> 00:34:40,639
implanted in my mind oh heck yeah we do

901
00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:42,800
that you know well we don't but people

902
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:44,960
can and if we put a little gimmick in

903
00:34:49,589 --> 00:34:47,119
your head we can make you do almost

904
00:34:52,149 --> 00:34:49,599
anything of course i would never do that

905
00:34:53,669 --> 00:34:52,159
i am a ethical clinician

906
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:53,679
it just seems

907
00:34:57,510 --> 00:34:56,000
kind of weird to talk about the mind

908
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:57,520
control

909
00:35:02,069 --> 00:34:59,040
machines

910
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:02,079
on your hypnotherapy practices website i

911
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:04,240
don't know i didn't do a whole bunch of

912
00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:06,000
sort of control testing to see if this

913
00:35:09,430 --> 00:35:07,359
is a standard question on all

914
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:09,440
hypnotherapy websites

915
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:11,760
i just assume it's not this is followed

916
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:14,480
up with another question what is the

917
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:16,480
false memory syndrome and i love how

918
00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:19,040
it's the false memory syndrome i just

919
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:22,640
think that's a clever touch

920
00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:24,800
the idea some people can be coaxed or

921
00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:26,960
fooled into remembering events that

922
00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:28,640
never happened has become the platform

923
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:30,320
for some groups to diminish claims of

924
00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:32,320
childhood sexual abuse that surface

925
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:33,839
sometimes during psychotherapy or

926
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:35,119
hypnotherapy

927
00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:37,440
it seems that the false memory syndrome

928
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:39,359
institute was created by parents facing

929
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:40,880
charges of abuse by their adult

930
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:43,200
offspring who had undergone therapy

931
00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:44,880
these parents felt they had been falsely

932
00:35:48,950 --> 00:35:46,960
accused and claimed that the accusations

933
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:48,960
stemmed from ideas or suggestions

934
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:50,560
implanted in their minds by the

935
00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:55,510
a scenario which the previous question

936
00:36:01,510 --> 00:35:58,320
made very clear is probably highly

937
00:36:03,190 --> 00:36:01,520
possible um what's false memory syndrome

938
00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:03,200
something some perverts came up with to

939
00:36:07,030 --> 00:36:04,560
keep out of jail

940
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:07,040
so that's me making light of it a bit

941
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:10,079
but but still this is a little odd to me

942
00:36:14,470 --> 00:36:12,160
and oh speaking of things that are odd

943
00:36:16,550 --> 00:36:14,480
on a hypnotherapist's website um

944
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:16,560
especially one with a name as innocuous

945
00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:18,400
as the brookside center for counseling

946
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:20,079
and hypnotherapy

947
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:22,560
there's a page entitled hypnosis and

948
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:24,640
alien abductions

949
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:31,760
abductions and his definition of the

950
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:33,760
abduction phenomenon is pretty

951
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:36,160
straightforward

952
00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:38,240
an alien abduction is the removal of an

953
00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:40,240
individual or individuals without their

954
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:42,079
consent from one physical location to

955
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:43,040
another

956
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:44,720
during this procedure the individual may

957
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:46,720
feel helpless paralyzed and unable to

958
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:48,800
control their wishes the purpose of the

959
00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:50,640
abduction is reported as being part of a

960
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:52,720
physical or psychological experiment

961
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:54,640
performed by non-humans

962
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:56,480
at the conclusion of the procedure the

963
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:57,839
individuals are returned to their

964
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:00,560
original location the individuals may or

965
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:03,370
may not remember their experiences

966
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:05,920
[Music]

967
00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:08,400
so he's not exactly

968
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:10,160
hiding or concealing the fact that this

969
00:37:16,630 --> 00:37:13,680
is one area of his practice he does on

970
00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:16,640
this page briefly discuss the case of

971
00:37:21,190 --> 00:37:19,520
michelle and links to a relevant excerpt

972
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:21,200
from the book millabs and we'll leave

973
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:23,200
that there or we'll leave that here

974
00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:25,119
because this is a whole other rabbit

975
00:37:28,310 --> 00:37:26,400
hole and maybe

976
00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:28,320
i don't know maybe on a patreon bonus

977
00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:30,880
episode we'll look at the michelle story

978
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:33,839
in depth at some point but

979
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:36,400
for now let's look at how the michelle

980
00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:39,760
story is expanded in the milabs book

981
00:37:43,349 --> 00:37:41,680
version now in the mufon article version

982
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:43,359
we learned that she recalled being raped

983
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:45,440
by a reptoid creature or reptiloid

984
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:48,400
creature the book version expands on the

985
00:37:51,910 --> 00:37:49,680
description of the creature but

986
00:37:55,589 --> 00:37:51,920
thankfully doesn't go into additional

987
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:55,599
lurid detail about the assault episode

988
00:37:59,270 --> 00:37:57,520
itself

989
00:38:00,950 --> 00:37:59,280
michelle described being escorted by

990
00:38:02,310 --> 00:38:00,960
military personnel into a dark

991
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:02,320
office-like room where she had a

992
00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:04,000
traumatic encounter with a non-human

993
00:38:07,270 --> 00:38:05,440
being

994
00:38:08,470 --> 00:38:07,280
there is almost no furniture in it

995
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:08,480
there's something that looks like a

996
00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:10,160
padded table they put me on it and lay

997
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:12,720
me down now i'm really cold they leave

998
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:14,800
the room i can't seem to move anything

999
00:38:19,109 --> 00:38:16,880
but my eyes why am i here

1000
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:19,119
i don't like this over to my left

1001
00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:21,119
something moves it's coming closer i can

1002
00:38:27,270 --> 00:38:25,440
see it better oh god it's a monster

1003
00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:27,280
at this point michelle got so agitated

1004
00:38:31,030 --> 00:38:28,880
that she almost jumped from the recliner

1005
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:31,040
in dr coogwell's office she got very

1006
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:32,720
emotional and couldn't stop shaking and

1007
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:35,520
crying after dr kaguel calmed her down

1008
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,520
she remembered the following

1009
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:39,359
what i see is a creature about six to

1010
00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:41,760
seven feet tall his ears are large and

1011
00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:44,079
pointed at the top his eyes are bright

1012
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:46,800
yellow and seem to glow he has pointy

1013
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:48,240
teeth and a large wrinkle on his

1014
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:50,640
forehead and he has a tail

1015
00:38:53,510 --> 00:38:51,680
after the description of the

1016
00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:53,520
reptoid-like being she remembered how

1017
00:38:57,190 --> 00:38:55,680
she was raped by this creature we don't

1018
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:57,200
know what this traumatic experience

1019
00:39:00,710 --> 00:38:58,960
means we don't think however that the

1020
00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:00,720
military worked with this reptoid

1021
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:02,560
creature it could be possible that

1022
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:04,640
michelle was drugged with a hallucinogen

1023
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:06,480
raped by a human and projected the

1024
00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:08,640
reptoid as a kind of screen memory

1025
00:39:11,829 --> 00:39:10,240
although she described the skin and

1026
00:39:15,030 --> 00:39:11,839
other features of the creature quite

1027
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:17,190
as in the mufon article lamar presents

1028
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:18,960
the view that the reptoid aspect of the

1029
00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:21,040
encounter could have been induced by

1030
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:23,680
some sort of artificial means he cites

1031
00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:25,520
in particular this time around being

1032
00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:27,760
dosed with lsd and he refers to the

1033
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:30,640
research of a dr stanislav groth he

1034
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:32,960
continues michelle's story which mirrors

1035
00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:34,560
what appeared in the mufon journal and

1036
00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:36,160
discusses the possibility that her

1037
00:39:41,589 --> 00:39:38,480
experiences were very real but that they

1038
00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:41,599
were entirely at the hands of military

1039
00:39:45,910 --> 00:39:43,119
or intelligence officials and that the

1040
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:45,920
alien aspects were manufactured or

1041
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:46,960
somehow

1042
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:48,160
implanted

1043
00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:49,680
there are some chapters then that move

1044
00:39:57,510 --> 00:39:53,119
into the genetic manipulation

1045
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,520
material again very much like the mufon

1046
00:40:02,630 --> 00:39:59,760
journal articles but

1047
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:02,640
expanded upon the descriptions are a

1048
00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:05,839
little more extensive the arguments are

1049
00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:08,480
sort of explained in a bit more detail

1050
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:10,400
and we get some additional description

1051
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:12,160
of the kinds of equipment and

1052
00:40:18,309 --> 00:40:15,200
experiments that abductees had noted in

1053
00:40:20,069 --> 00:40:18,319
their um in their hypnotic regressions

1054
00:40:22,230 --> 00:40:20,079
and and their accounts thing and some of

1055
00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:22,240
these are from dan wright's mufon

1056
00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:25,200
transcription project one abductee

1057
00:40:29,430 --> 00:40:27,440
observed quote several tubes with

1058
00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:29,440
different bodies inside and was placed

1059
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:31,359
in front of a tube with a body of a tall

1060
00:40:36,069 --> 00:40:33,680
blonde human woman inside

1061
00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:36,079
end quote and it was the tube was glass

1062
00:40:42,150 --> 00:40:39,359
or plexiglas and this was aboard a

1063
00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:42,160
aboard a ufo so this is the sort of

1064
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:45,359
thing we're seeing we also see abductees

1065
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,040
who report

1066
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:50,160
having come face to face with

1067
00:40:56,550 --> 00:40:52,640
embryonic or fetal

1068
00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:56,560
gray aliens suspended in liquid in jars

1069
00:41:02,630 --> 00:41:00,000
and in clear cylinders and i just like i

1070
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:02,640
said earlier i just keep flashing back

1071
00:41:07,109 --> 00:41:05,520
to dulce underground base

1072
00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:07,119
stories and things like that and i'm

1073
00:41:13,109 --> 00:41:09,920
sure lammer's argument would be that you

1074
00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:13,119
know the dulce bass story is completely

1075
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:14,079
tainted

1076
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:18,079
with all sorts of of alien conspiracy

1077
00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:20,240
nonsense that's accreted around it

1078
00:41:23,829 --> 00:41:22,160
probably intentionally is disinformation

1079
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:23,839
but what if the core

1080
00:41:27,829 --> 00:41:25,440
story of it is true there is an

1081
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:27,839
underground base where experimentation

1082
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:30,079
genetic experimentation is taking place

1083
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:32,640
involving humans and aliens and that the

1084
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:34,400
american military

1085
00:41:38,230 --> 00:41:36,160
is involved with it we get a whole

1086
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:38,240
chapter on underground basis which makes

1087
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:41,359
the uh richard souter uh introduction

1088
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:43,920
sort of uh sort of smart what's weird to

1089
00:41:47,910 --> 00:41:46,000
me at least is that the underground base

1090
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:47,920
chapter which is actually entitled let

1091
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:48,960
me look and make sure i've got this

1092
00:41:54,309 --> 00:41:51,599
correct here otherworldly journeys and

1093
00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:54,319
military underground facilities is only

1094
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:57,200
a couple pages long but one thing really

1095
00:42:02,470 --> 00:41:59,440
interesting is that

1096
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:02,480
lammer reviews the uh the research by dr

1097
00:42:06,150 --> 00:42:04,079
thomas bullard

1098
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:06,160
who talked about otherworldly journeys

1099
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:06,960
and

1100
00:42:11,109 --> 00:42:08,079
bullard

1101
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:11,119
sort of pulled out a pattern from some

1102
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:13,520
abduction accounts where there's a phase

1103
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:15,280
of preparation where the alien is

1104
00:42:19,349 --> 00:42:16,880
putting the abductee

1105
00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:19,359
into a protective environment travel

1106
00:42:24,630 --> 00:42:21,520
which is the actual transit an

1107
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:24,640
underground element and a landscape

1108
00:42:28,910 --> 00:42:27,040
the abductee sees the surface of the

1109
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:28,920
other world there's often a museum

1110
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:32,000
museum-like aspect to it as well and i

1111
00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:34,400
like this because there are parallels to

1112
00:42:39,910 --> 00:42:36,880
a lot of contact-d things we've seen and

1113
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:39,920
i would argue that there is not

1114
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:42,560
necessarily as much of a divide between

1115
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:46,160
the abduction phenomenon and the contact

1116
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:49,680
phenomenon as we have come to know and

1117
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:52,319
defined them and described them over the

1118
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:53,839
decades there are

1119
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:56,560
overlaps and these things that bullard

1120
00:43:00,069 --> 00:42:58,880
explains that lammer relates to us in

1121
00:43:00,950 --> 00:43:00,079
this chapter

1122
00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:00,960
are

1123
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:02,960
sort of emblematic of that

1124
00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:04,400
if you were to take some of those things

1125
00:43:08,150 --> 00:43:06,160
especially the otherworldly journey

1126
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:08,160
aspect that's not something i would

1127
00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:09,920
necessarily

1128
00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:11,200
pull out of

1129
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:13,760
my head when i think of abductees but

1130
00:43:15,990 --> 00:43:14,880
once you think about it once you think

1131
00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:16,000
about some of the stories that we've

1132
00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:18,800
seen over the years yeah it does make

1133
00:43:23,670 --> 00:43:21,359
does make a kind of sense an abductee

1134
00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:23,680
named evelyn not her real name it's a

1135
00:43:29,030 --> 00:43:26,160
pseudonym described her experience and

1136
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:29,040
what she saw this way

1137
00:43:32,470 --> 00:43:30,800
i can remember flying in a beautiful

1138
00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:32,480
golden ship and it went into a

1139
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:34,319
mountainside and flew under the ground

1140
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:36,560
into a huge cavernous room where to my

1141
00:43:40,470 --> 00:43:38,560
surprise were human beings dressed in

1142
00:43:42,150 --> 00:43:40,480
military uniforms with machine guns

1143
00:43:43,589 --> 00:43:42,160
slung behind their backs

1144
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:43,599
i walked in a line with some other

1145
00:43:46,630 --> 00:43:44,800
people and we passed through an

1146
00:43:48,630 --> 00:43:46,640
energized gate that somehow does

1147
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:48,640
something to your atoms i remarked to

1148
00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:51,119
myself the military must have some alien

1149
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:57,270
so very much an otherworldly very ufo

1150
00:44:02,790 --> 00:43:59,520
type situation but

1151
00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:02,800
with that military aspect again we then

1152
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:05,440
move into a chapter called toward a

1153
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:09,040
controlled society in which we

1154
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:12,319
really get a lot of what was in the

1155
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:15,200
mufon articles about comparing the

1156
00:44:20,550 --> 00:44:17,920
experiences of abductees with the known

1157
00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:20,560
limits of technology or the speculated

1158
00:44:25,190 --> 00:44:22,319
limits of technology described and

1159
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:25,200
declassified documents and like i said a

1160
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:26,880
lot of speculation based on

1161
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:29,200
technological knowledge

1162
00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:31,440
theorizing things like that especially

1163
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:34,720
implants especially the ability of

1164
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:37,760
other entities earthly entities to

1165
00:44:43,510 --> 00:44:40,960
use various types of electromagnetic

1166
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:43,520
energy to generate thoughts

1167
00:44:49,109 --> 00:44:46,720
images experiences things like that sort

1168
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:49,119
of the mind control

1169
00:44:52,950 --> 00:44:51,760
melting into that virtual reality

1170
00:44:54,069 --> 00:44:52,960
scenario

1171
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:54,079
type thing

1172
00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:56,160
there's also a chapter on

1173
00:45:01,750 --> 00:44:59,520
what it calls military interrogations of

1174
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:01,760
alien abductees

1175
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:03,040
but

1176
00:45:07,510 --> 00:45:04,319
i i don't know it doesn't really

1177
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:07,520
describe interrogations as much as

1178
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:09,280
in some cases like the case of katharina

1179
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:10,720
wilson almost a

1180
00:45:15,829 --> 00:45:13,920
second life uh to sort of is that the

1181
00:45:17,349 --> 00:45:15,839
secret life was the david jacob's book

1182
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:17,359
second life was the virtual reality

1183
00:45:21,670 --> 00:45:18,960
thing on the internet right but a sort

1184
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:21,680
of second parallel life she lived um

1185
00:45:26,470 --> 00:45:23,760
sort of in a military

1186
00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:26,480
situation or a military circumstance

1187
00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:28,880
which was very interesting and sort of

1188
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:31,760
suggests the fairly well-worn idea of

1189
00:45:38,550 --> 00:45:35,200
mind control manipulation creating um

1190
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:38,560
dissociative identities in people

1191
00:45:42,710 --> 00:45:40,640
so the book sort of

1192
00:45:44,790 --> 00:45:42,720
ends it doesn't have a great conclusion

1193
00:45:47,910 --> 00:45:44,800
honestly it just sort of

1194
00:45:50,550 --> 00:45:47,920
ends and um with guidelines for future

1195
00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:50,560
research which again is is very sort of

1196
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:52,480
speculative as well as you know let's

1197
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:53,280
not

1198
00:45:59,910 --> 00:45:57,280
the horse here there's still a lot of

1199
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:59,920
actual scientific work that needs to be

1200
00:46:01,910 --> 00:46:01,119
done

1201
00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:01,920
so

1202
00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:03,920
that's kind of the book and we're going

1203
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:05,359
to talk about the reactions of the book

1204
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:07,200
and things like that but i just want to

1205
00:46:11,270 --> 00:46:09,280
say if you have felt

1206
00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:11,280
like you have missed out

1207
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:12,400
by not

1208
00:46:16,710 --> 00:46:13,440
reading

1209
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:16,720
or owning the millaps book i feel i can

1210
00:46:22,309 --> 00:46:19,599
tell you authoritatively that if you

1211
00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:22,319
read lammer's articles in the mufon

1212
00:46:29,670 --> 00:46:27,200
journal in 1996 and 1997 you will be in

1213
00:46:31,589 --> 00:46:29,680
quite good shape and they're out there

1214
00:46:33,670 --> 00:46:31,599
on the internet i will

1215
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:33,680
i will get some links up for you because

1216
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:36,400
they are out there so i will make sure

1217
00:46:40,230 --> 00:46:38,640
that you uh that you have those

1218
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:40,240
so i'll put those in the show notes or

1219
00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:41,599
something like that

1220
00:46:44,470 --> 00:46:42,960
so

1221
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:44,480
after the book was published actually

1222
00:46:48,230 --> 00:46:46,240
before the book was published there was

1223
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:48,240
a lot of buzz about this on various

1224
00:46:52,069 --> 00:46:49,839
internet platforms it was eagerly

1225
00:46:54,710 --> 00:46:52,079
awaited with various lammer articles

1226
00:46:57,109 --> 00:46:54,720
being recirculated and given that it was

1227
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:57,119
the late 1990s i have to think that some

1228
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:58,640
of these articles might have just been

1229
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:00,640
typed in by hand

1230
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:03,680
from the um from the mufon journal which

1231
00:47:07,670 --> 00:47:05,680
is pretty wild

1232
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:07,680
and the excitement wasn't confined to

1233
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:10,640
alien and ufo groups take for example

1234
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:13,839
this post from the usenet group alt dot

1235
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:16,319
privacy um

1236
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:18,880
content warning for some

1237
00:47:24,390 --> 00:47:20,400
fairly

1238
00:47:26,230 --> 00:47:24,400
racist and homophobic content

1239
00:47:27,990 --> 00:47:26,240
mind control is a growing problem in the

1240
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:28,000
us and can only be stopped if the

1241
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:30,000
general public is made aware of it the

1242
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:31,760
controlled media in the u.s will not

1243
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:33,359
report on such atrocities since they are

1244
00:47:37,349 --> 00:47:35,520
part of an ongoing non-lethal ethnic

1245
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:37,359
cleansing program of the us government

1246
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:40,000
against heterosexual white u.s citizens

1247
00:47:43,190 --> 00:47:41,520
their genes were right but had the

1248
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:43,200
misfortune to be deemed politically

1249
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:44,480
incorrect

1250
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:46,160
that such outrages can be occurring

1251
00:47:49,349 --> 00:47:47,680
without the public being aware of it as

1252
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:49,359
also due to the dumbing down which has

1253
00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:51,280
occurred in our educational system as a

1254
00:47:55,750 --> 00:47:53,520
result of affirmative action programs

1255
00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:55,760
such underrepresented minority promoting

1256
00:47:59,430 --> 00:47:57,839
programs must be fought since the net

1257
00:48:01,270 --> 00:47:59,440
effect of such programs is not to

1258
00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:01,280
promote the targeted minorities but to

1259
00:48:05,190 --> 00:48:03,119
lower the intellectual moral and ethical

1260
00:48:06,870 --> 00:48:05,200
standards of the institutions involved

1261
00:48:08,710 --> 00:48:06,880
though a case can and should be made for

1262
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:08,720
a female quota like in germany and other

1263
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:11,200
european countries since such systems

1264
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:12,720
achieve their goals without lowering the

1265
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:15,280
intellectual level of affected programs

1266
00:48:19,109 --> 00:48:17,280
thus it is incumbent on netizens to take

1267
00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:19,119
the initiative on their own and become

1268
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:24,630
and then the author segues to the press

1269
00:48:29,109 --> 00:48:27,040
release for the forthcoming milabs book

1270
00:48:31,109 --> 00:48:29,119
despite lammer's book or the lammers

1271
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:31,119
book sorry not

1272
00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:33,440
reflecting in any way the racist

1273
00:48:37,030 --> 00:48:35,760
homophobic themes taken for granted by

1274
00:48:39,430 --> 00:48:37,040
the poster

1275
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:39,440
noted social scientist going by the name

1276
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:42,160
bpm mixmaster

1277
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:44,720
ridiculous and horrible stuff

1278
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:46,880
so lambert did receive some unwanted

1279
00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:49,440
attention as a result of writing this

1280
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:51,760
book and he issued a statement entitled

1281
00:48:57,030 --> 00:48:54,160
millab's book ruffles feathers during

1282
00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:57,040
the summer of 1999.

1283
00:49:00,710 --> 00:48:58,880
the anti-milap group has made an attempt

1284
00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:00,720
to connect my private research interests

1285
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:02,880
with my workplace therefore i'm

1286
00:49:05,829 --> 00:49:04,160
informing all readers and other

1287
00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:05,839
researchers that my research of ufo

1288
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:07,680
phenomenon abductions and mill labs is

1289
00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:09,280
not connected with my work as a space

1290
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:11,040
scientist it does not represent the

1291
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:13,359
opinion of my department my director etc

1292
00:49:17,030 --> 00:49:15,440
and is not supported by them my research

1293
00:49:18,630 --> 00:49:17,040
is private and is based on my own

1294
00:49:21,109 --> 00:49:18,640
hypothesis which is supported by

1295
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:21,119
investigative journalism i also do not

1296
00:49:24,150 --> 00:49:22,480
claim that the whole united states

1297
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:24,160
military or related intelligence

1298
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:25,520
agencies are involved in alien

1299
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:28,079
abductions ufo research kidnappings of

1300
00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:31,200
abductees examinations etc and i'm not

1301
00:49:34,870 --> 00:49:32,720
an anti-american

1302
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:34,880
however it is my democratic opinion that

1303
00:49:39,109 --> 00:49:36,880
there are indications that covert human

1304
00:49:41,589 --> 00:49:39,119
forces may be involved in the abduction

1305
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:41,599
phenomenon this is only an hypothesis

1306
00:49:45,030 --> 00:49:43,040
and the discussion about this should not

1307
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:45,040
be forbidden or censored in democratic

1308
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:47,280
societies if attempts continue to be

1309
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:49,040
made we should remind ourselves and the

1310
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:51,280
anti-milap group that we do not live in

1311
00:49:55,510 --> 00:49:53,440
the former soviet union or serbia we

1312
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:55,520
live in a democratic society it is a

1313
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:57,359
known published fact that segments of

1314
00:50:01,030 --> 00:49:59,119
the united states military intelligence

1315
00:50:02,630 --> 00:50:01,040
agencies experimented on unwitting

1316
00:50:04,710 --> 00:50:02,640
people during the cold war even though

1317
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:04,720
it was illegal i do not believe that our

1318
00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:06,800
milab critics can guarantee or prove

1319
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:12,950
to be fair

1320
00:50:17,270 --> 00:50:14,960
asking the mill lab critics to prove

1321
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:17,280
experiments have ended is dangerously

1322
00:50:21,910 --> 00:50:19,359
close to the logical impossibility of

1323
00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:21,920
asking somebody to prove a negative so i

1324
00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:24,160
got to take off some points there but

1325
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:26,640
in general i mean yeah you can't really

1326
00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:27,599
deny

1327
00:50:30,790 --> 00:50:28,800
that

1328
00:50:33,109 --> 00:50:30,800
you know horrible horrible things have

1329
00:50:35,750 --> 00:50:33,119
been done to people at the hands of the

1330
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:35,760
government uh but maybe there's a reason

1331
00:50:40,790 --> 00:50:38,000
and that sort of feeds into the biggest

1332
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:40,800
and most vociferous response to millaps

1333
00:50:45,670 --> 00:50:43,680
which was from colonel john alexander

1334
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:45,680
superstar of the non-lethal weapons

1335
00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:48,880
scene and as we saw last time noted

1336
00:50:53,109 --> 00:50:51,280
world traveler he took to the nascent

1337
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:53,119
interwebs in an attempt to debunk

1338
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:55,359
lammer's work and he starts with this

1339
00:50:58,870 --> 00:50:56,480
frankly

1340
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:58,880
masterful statement that

1341
00:51:05,109 --> 00:51:01,520
in just a few sentences trashes lammer's

1342
00:51:06,710 --> 00:51:05,119
work and plugs his own forthcoming book

1343
00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:06,720
lammer has displayed with a lack of

1344
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:08,480
understanding of technical knowledge and

1345
00:51:12,870 --> 00:51:10,720
the ability to competently analyze

1346
00:51:15,349 --> 00:51:12,880
information unfortunately he is not

1347
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:15,359
alone this topic is quite important and

1348
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:16,720
is covered in some detail in my

1349
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:19,440
forthcoming book future war non-lethal

1350
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:22,559
weapons and 21st century warfare however

1351
00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:24,000
given his current position in the

1352
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:26,480
austrian space research institute this

1353
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:30,240
obvious lapse is very disconcerting

1354
00:51:35,109 --> 00:51:32,640
that sort of snide condescending tone is

1355
00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:35,119
going to be a staple of the john

1356
00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:36,800
alexander experience we're going to work

1357
00:51:41,829 --> 00:51:40,079
our way through this critique here and i

1358
00:51:44,710 --> 00:51:41,839
should say i am aware that he does

1359
00:51:47,190 --> 00:51:44,720
discuss the lammer hypothesis in his

1360
00:51:48,870 --> 00:51:47,200
book that he mentioned um i've looked at

1361
00:51:51,109 --> 00:51:48,880
it i've looked through that section and

1362
00:51:53,109 --> 00:51:51,119
he doesn't really unless i missed it he

1363
00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:53,119
doesn't really make any points in there

1364
00:51:58,790 --> 00:51:55,920
that he doesn't make in this initial

1365
00:52:01,109 --> 00:51:58,800
critique so in the interests of time i'm

1366
00:52:04,230 --> 00:52:01,119
just going to deal with this initial

1367
00:52:06,230 --> 00:52:04,240
critique here's another bit

1368
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:06,240
even if this mystical and unattained

1369
00:52:10,069 --> 00:52:07,680
technology were available the

1370
00:52:12,069 --> 00:52:10,079
organizational aspects are illogical if

1371
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:12,079
the three-car system proposed by lammer

1372
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:13,839
were used by the offenders the logic

1373
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:16,079
still fails assuming there are a minimum

1374
00:52:19,589 --> 00:52:17,760
of two people per car and we know that

1375
00:52:21,829 --> 00:52:19,599
it takes five shifts to man any given

1376
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:21,839
position we are led to assume that 30

1377
00:52:24,950 --> 00:52:23,440
people are assigned to continuously

1378
00:52:26,710 --> 00:52:24,960
track each mill lab

1379
00:52:28,630 --> 00:52:26,720
of course that doesn't count supervisors

1380
00:52:30,549 --> 00:52:28,640
and administrative personnel remember

1381
00:52:32,630 --> 00:52:30,559
the helicopters where did they come from

1382
00:52:34,710 --> 00:52:32,640
who flew them who conducted the medical

1383
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:34,720
tests who maintained these yet to be

1384
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:37,040
identified bases the list of involved

1385
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:39,440
personnel goes on and on since it is

1386
00:52:43,030 --> 00:52:41,119
claimed that these illegal operations

1387
00:52:44,870 --> 00:52:43,040
have been conducted for many years and

1388
00:52:46,549 --> 00:52:44,880
since military personnel rotate on a

1389
00:52:48,230 --> 00:52:46,559
frequent basis there would have to be

1390
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:48,240
thousands if not tens of thousands of

1391
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:50,880
people involved over time where are they

1392
00:52:54,309 --> 00:52:52,319
when you add up all of the people who

1393
00:52:56,069 --> 00:52:54,319
say they are mlab victims the number of

1394
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:56,079
people involved in this operation would

1395
00:53:00,549 --> 00:52:58,480
be non-trivial at a time when military

1396
00:53:02,230 --> 00:53:00,559
strength is cut to the bone are we to

1397
00:53:03,829 --> 00:53:02,240
believe this mission without purpose

1398
00:53:05,829 --> 00:53:03,839
takes precedence over other critical

1399
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:05,839
functions with all the questionable

1400
00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:07,920
projects that have been exposed why have

1401
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:09,520
we not heard from one whistleblower

1402
00:53:18,230 --> 00:53:11,839
about millab the reason is because it

1403
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:20,390
the thing is

1404
00:53:25,589 --> 00:53:22,960
i think you could say just about

1405
00:53:28,710 --> 00:53:25,599
any of this about any

1406
00:53:30,630 --> 00:53:28,720
of the many documented

1407
00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:30,640
proven

1408
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:31,920
covert

1409
00:53:35,430 --> 00:53:33,359
investigation

1410
00:53:38,390 --> 00:53:35,440
experimentation things

1411
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:41,109
people don't tend to talk

1412
00:53:44,630 --> 00:53:43,040
even in large systems like this

1413
00:53:45,430 --> 00:53:44,640
whistleblowers

1414
00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:45,440
are

1415
00:53:55,109 --> 00:53:53,040
elimination because you know who they

1416
00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:55,119
are because oh gosh that guy's talking

1417
00:53:57,510 --> 00:53:56,400
shut him down

1418
00:54:01,030 --> 00:53:57,520
um

1419
00:54:02,470 --> 00:54:01,040
i don't know it just seems like the

1420
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:02,480
like there couldn't have been a

1421
00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:04,160
conspiracy to assassinate kennedy

1422
00:54:08,230 --> 00:54:06,079
somebody would have talked well really i

1423
00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:08,240
don't know i just i just don't buy it it

1424
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:11,680
seems like a very sort of generic

1425
00:54:18,069 --> 00:54:15,440
argument that trades heavily on the

1426
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:18,079
um let me tell you how these things work

1427
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:20,160
kind of attitude when you know why

1428
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:21,520
should i believe that you're telling me

1429
00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:24,000
the truth about the way things work

1430
00:54:29,510 --> 00:54:26,640
you're part of this military

1431
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:29,520
intelligence system retired colonel

1432
00:54:33,510 --> 00:54:32,160
alexander of the non-lethal weapons

1433
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:33,520
projects

1434
00:54:36,710 --> 00:54:34,720
i don't know

1435
00:54:38,630 --> 00:54:36,720
next

1436
00:54:40,470 --> 00:54:38,640
there is no logical purpose in tracking

1437
00:54:41,910 --> 00:54:40,480
the people who make these claims they do

1438
00:54:43,510 --> 00:54:41,920
not appear to have any significant

1439
00:54:45,589 --> 00:54:43,520
attributes that would make them worthy

1440
00:54:47,589 --> 00:54:45,599
of special study there's no indication

1441
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:47,599
that they are extremely intelligent nor

1442
00:54:51,510 --> 00:54:49,680
is there physical prowess of note no

1443
00:54:52,950 --> 00:54:51,520
nobel laureate or person of publicly

1444
00:54:54,710 --> 00:54:52,960
acclaimed accomplishments has ever

1445
00:54:56,309 --> 00:54:54,720
claimed to be a millap it therefore

1446
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:56,319
remains a mystery as to why these

1447
00:55:00,710 --> 00:54:58,480
relatively non-descript people are

1448
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:00,720
reportedly chosen to be unwilling milab

1449
00:55:04,390 --> 00:55:02,880
participants there are however many

1450
00:55:06,549 --> 00:55:04,400
well-known medical conditions that

1451
00:55:08,309 --> 00:55:06,559
describe these signs and symptoms these

1452
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:08,319
observed or perceived contentions

1453
00:55:12,230 --> 00:55:10,000
maintain that some person or group of

1454
00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:12,240
persons is after them are indeed found

1455
00:55:15,510 --> 00:55:14,160
amongst 10 million persons per year who

1456
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:15,520
are seen by clinicians who include

1457
00:55:19,910 --> 00:55:17,760
social workers clinical psychologists

1458
00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:19,920
neurologists general practitioners and

1459
00:55:24,069 --> 00:55:21,680
other primary care practitioners and

1460
00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:24,079
sometimes by psychiatrists the vast

1461
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:25,920
majority of these persons over 90

1462
00:55:30,470 --> 00:55:28,240
percent function very well within

1463
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:30,480
activities of daily life outside of a

1464
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:32,400
narrow highly circumscribed paranoid

1465
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:34,640
delusion concern or worry that while not

1466
00:55:38,710 --> 00:55:37,280
real these delusions are not disabling

1467
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:38,720
most common are beliefs of other

1468
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:41,520
entities voices bedroom-related visions

1469
00:55:45,510 --> 00:55:43,680
and hypnagogic experiences

1470
00:55:47,990 --> 00:55:45,520
often they are accompanied over time by

1471
00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:48,000
exaggerated notions of self-importance

1472
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:50,079
clinical estimates are that over 100

1473
00:55:53,589 --> 00:55:51,760
million of these persons are alive today

1474
00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:53,599
worldwide they are found in all

1475
00:55:57,670 --> 00:55:55,680
countries and all cultures generally

1476
00:55:58,950 --> 00:55:57,680
speaking the demography of these persons

1477
00:56:01,270 --> 00:55:58,960
does not match that of a normal

1478
00:56:03,190 --> 00:56:01,280
population these observations are not

1479
00:56:04,789 --> 00:56:03,200
new they have been diagnosed or more

1480
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:04,799
likely merely observed for more than a

1481
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,960
century it is a much more simplistic

1482
00:56:11,109 --> 00:56:08,880
answer than the bizarre scenario being

1483
00:56:17,349 --> 00:56:11,119
portrayed by lammer and his supporters

1484
00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:19,430
well no they're not going to

1485
00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:22,480
surreptitiously abduct people that

1486
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:25,280
everybody would notice are missing

1487
00:56:30,390 --> 00:56:28,079
for these things where are the nobel

1488
00:56:31,510 --> 00:56:30,400
laureates in this group of millaps oh

1489
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:31,520
shut up

1490
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:34,240
out this this really really irks me and

1491
00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:34,960
then

1492
00:56:39,750 --> 00:56:37,280
sort of goes into a you know you know

1493
00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:39,760
who does have these things happen at a

1494
00:56:45,510 --> 00:56:42,480
high rate are people with mental

1495
00:56:48,549 --> 00:56:45,520
problems um it's

1496
00:56:49,589 --> 00:56:48,559
it's distasteful um i don't like his

1497
00:56:52,309 --> 00:56:49,599
attitude

1498
00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:52,319
very much at all at least victoria

1499
00:56:57,030 --> 00:56:56,160
alexander was kind of funny and humorous

1500
00:56:59,510 --> 00:56:57,040
in her

1501
00:57:01,910 --> 00:56:59,520
sort of dismissal of of these things

1502
00:57:02,710 --> 00:57:01,920
alexander is just

1503
00:57:05,829 --> 00:57:02,720
uh

1504
00:57:08,470 --> 00:57:05,839
i don't know it's just just oily and

1505
00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:08,480
anxious and kind of

1506
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:10,559
i don't i don't like him at all but

1507
00:57:14,950 --> 00:57:12,480
we're we're gonna keep going we're gonna

1508
00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:14,960
get through this

1509
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:16,640
it cannot be denied that the system has

1510
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:18,079
been abused in the past and the

1511
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:20,319
individuals rights were violated however

1512
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:22,240
in each of the cases listed a reason for

1513
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:24,000
the experiments could be made in

1514
00:57:27,510 --> 00:57:26,160
tuskegee doctors wanted to determine how

1515
00:57:30,150 --> 00:57:27,520
syphilis would progress if left

1516
00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:30,160
untreated most but not all participants

1517
00:57:34,390 --> 00:57:32,720
in mkultra were volunteers who signed

1518
00:57:35,990 --> 00:57:34,400
statements to that effect

1519
00:57:37,670 --> 00:57:36,000
forgotten in the clamor over those

1520
00:57:39,750 --> 00:57:37,680
experiments is the grave concern that

1521
00:57:41,430 --> 00:57:39,760
had been generated by our pows who

1522
00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:41,440
showed signs of brainwashing when they

1523
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:43,760
returned from north korean camps

1524
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:45,440
the radiation experiments were also

1525
00:57:49,349 --> 00:57:47,440
conducted in a time of extreme anxiety

1526
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:49,359
about the effects of exposure and were

1527
00:57:52,870 --> 00:57:51,040
based on the concerns for our very

1528
00:57:55,030 --> 00:57:52,880
national survival

1529
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:55,040
i'm not making excuses or apologies for

1530
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:56,319
these experiments

1531
00:58:00,630 --> 00:57:58,319
however in each case the designers

1532
00:58:03,030 --> 00:58:00,640
conducted a risk benefits analysis and

1533
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:03,040
chose to proceed the proposed mill lab

1534
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:04,960
projects failed that simple test of

1535
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:06,240
common sense

1536
00:58:09,829 --> 00:58:08,400
there is just no reason to conduct them

1537
00:58:12,390 --> 00:58:09,839
however since there is no statute of

1538
00:58:13,750 --> 00:58:12,400
limitation on kidnapping i also highly

1539
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:13,760
recommend that any person who

1540
00:58:17,589 --> 00:58:15,599
experiences an abduction at the hands of

1541
00:58:19,589 --> 00:58:17,599
anyone including purported government

1542
00:58:22,069 --> 00:58:19,599
agents report them to multiple law

1543
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:22,079
enforcement agencies that will ensure no

1544
00:58:26,789 --> 00:58:24,480
single agency can quash the report while

1545
00:58:31,510 --> 00:58:26,799
immediacy would be preferred old cases

1546
00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:34,549
well of course it's regrettable that we

1547
00:58:38,789 --> 00:58:36,640
targeted some of the most vulnerable

1548
00:58:41,470 --> 00:58:38,799
members of our society for

1549
00:58:44,309 --> 00:58:41,480
unspeakably inhumane treatment and

1550
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:44,319
experimentation but i think most of them

1551
00:58:48,710 --> 00:58:47,119
signed waivers of some kind

1552
00:58:50,710 --> 00:58:48,720
probably

1553
00:58:55,109 --> 00:58:50,720
you know

1554
00:58:57,030 --> 00:58:55,119
it's understandable that these horrible

1555
00:58:58,309 --> 00:58:57,040
things occurred because you have to

1556
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:58,319
understand

1557
00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:00,160
people in the government were kind of

1558
00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:03,040
nervous about some scary things so

1559
00:59:07,270 --> 00:59:04,720
that means you have to give lots of

1560
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:07,280
people syphilis

1561
00:59:12,789 --> 00:59:08,640
this is

1562
00:59:14,870 --> 00:59:12,799
i'm not the only person who thinks this

1563
00:59:15,670 --> 00:59:14,880
is awful there is there's some backlash

1564
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:15,680
from

1565
00:59:22,309 --> 00:59:19,200
other people as well we're almost we're

1566
00:59:24,870 --> 00:59:22,319
almost through this this very dark patch

1567
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:24,880
of material here

1568
00:59:29,670 --> 00:59:27,040
the millab concoction fails every known

1569
00:59:31,750 --> 00:59:29,680
test of knowledge proof and common sense

1570
00:59:34,150 --> 00:59:31,760
not one scintilla of concrete evidence

1571
00:59:36,069 --> 00:59:34,160
exists to support the hypothesis

1572
00:59:38,069 --> 00:59:36,079
lammer's arguments fail in technology

1573
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:38,079
political science military science

1574
00:59:42,309 --> 00:59:39,920
government budget and finance

1575
00:59:44,870 --> 00:59:42,319
organizational sociology and psychology

1576
00:59:46,549 --> 00:59:44,880
or psychiatry no one supporting the mlap

1577
00:59:48,630 --> 00:59:46,559
hypothesis can explain why critical

1578
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:48,640
resources if they existed would be

1579
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:50,480
employed for this nonsense versus some

1580
00:59:55,030 --> 00:59:52,960
issue of vital national importance at

1581
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:55,040
the end of the day all we are left with

1582
00:59:59,910 --> 00:59:57,359
is obstruct totally unsubstantiated

1583
01:00:04,549 --> 00:59:59,920
conspiracy theory but that does sell

1584
01:00:08,950 --> 01:00:06,230
i enjoy the part where he's just

1585
01:00:10,549 --> 01:00:08,960
rattling off various unrelated fields of

1586
01:00:12,710 --> 01:00:10,559
study saying lamra has failed to

1587
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:12,720
consider all of these fields or fails in

1588
01:00:18,789 --> 01:00:15,119
all of these ways well

1589
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:18,799
so does your critique of him um it's

1590
01:00:23,589 --> 01:00:21,520
oh well it's over now so there were some

1591
01:00:25,510 --> 01:00:23,599
critiques of

1592
01:00:28,630 --> 01:00:25,520
alexander's critique and the one i want

1593
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:28,640
to focus on is by conspiracy writer alex

1594
01:00:34,789 --> 01:00:33,119
constantine and constantine had some

1595
01:00:36,230 --> 01:00:34,799
interesting things to say

1596
01:00:38,150 --> 01:00:36,240
about

1597
01:00:39,270 --> 01:00:38,160
alexander and

1598
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:39,280
his

1599
01:00:43,990 --> 01:00:40,880
critique

1600
01:00:47,190 --> 01:00:44,000
in relation to his position and the work

1601
01:00:50,549 --> 01:00:47,200
that he had done over the years

1602
01:00:51,829 --> 01:00:50,559
mengele slurring meekly the uh did

1603
01:00:53,829 --> 01:00:51,839
nothing

1604
01:00:55,750 --> 01:00:53,839
john alexander is distancing himself

1605
01:00:57,589 --> 01:00:55,760
from horrific acts of experimentation on

1606
01:00:59,430 --> 01:00:57,599
humans and his categorical denial

1607
01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:59,440
originating as it does from inside the

1608
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:01,440
intelligence community is a statement

1609
01:01:05,109 --> 01:01:03,359
for the record from the big boys

1610
01:01:06,710 --> 01:01:05,119
but there is high-handed irony in the

1611
01:01:08,309 --> 01:01:06,720
fact that is the only position he can

1612
01:01:10,390 --> 01:01:08,319
possibly take without incriminating

1613
01:01:12,630 --> 01:01:10,400
himself if he acknowledges facts that

1614
01:01:14,470 --> 01:01:12,640
lammer many abductees targeted political

1615
01:01:16,789 --> 01:01:14,480
dissidents and other categories of abuse

1616
01:01:19,270 --> 01:01:16,799
know by direct and indirect experience

1617
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:19,280
to be true then he implicates himself in

1618
01:01:30,230 --> 01:01:26,950
strong words you start throwing the word

1619
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:30,240
mengele around you know you're in it for

1620
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:33,280
the long haul and he does um

1621
01:01:37,270 --> 01:01:35,520
sort of talk also about alexander's

1622
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:37,280
position within the military

1623
01:01:39,589 --> 01:01:38,400
intelligence

1624
01:01:42,549 --> 01:01:39,599
complex

1625
01:01:43,589 --> 01:01:42,559
and that his his denial is

1626
01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:43,599
sort of

1627
01:01:47,589 --> 01:01:46,079
as he says a statement for the record

1628
01:01:49,510 --> 01:01:47,599
but

1629
01:01:53,109 --> 01:01:49,520
it's the only thing he can say

1630
01:01:56,230 --> 01:01:53,119
is what constantine is saying and it is

1631
01:01:58,470 --> 01:01:56,240
not necessarily an effective

1632
01:02:01,270 --> 01:01:58,480
rebuttal of lammer's arguments it's more

1633
01:02:03,430 --> 01:02:01,280
of an official refusal and a very

1634
01:02:05,910 --> 01:02:03,440
cynical one at that

1635
01:02:08,710 --> 01:02:05,920
next constantine takes aim at the fact

1636
01:02:11,029 --> 01:02:08,720
that alexander says there is you know

1637
01:02:13,750 --> 01:02:11,039
not one scintilla of evidence that

1638
01:02:15,829 --> 01:02:13,760
anything lammer says is true

1639
01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:15,839
not one scintilla i don't know what a

1640
01:02:19,349 --> 01:02:17,520
cintilla is but anyone who has been

1641
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:19,359
subjected to a millab experience with

1642
01:02:23,589 --> 01:02:22,000
fume only a dod prick would make a claim

1643
01:02:25,349 --> 01:02:23,599
that sweeping to an audience that has

1644
01:02:27,349 --> 01:02:25,359
poured over all scraps of research on

1645
01:02:29,990 --> 01:02:27,359
non-lethal weapons technology available

1646
01:02:32,309 --> 01:02:30,000
particularly the em variety the torture

1647
01:02:34,309 --> 01:02:32,319
of civilians goes on and nitpicking over

1648
01:02:36,390 --> 01:02:34,319
rf triangulation loci based on the

1649
01:02:38,630 --> 01:02:36,400
anachronistic mainstream data available

1650
01:02:39,829 --> 01:02:38,640
in the unclassified sector is futile and

1651
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:39,839
distracting

1652
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:42,160
alexander denies not only his role in

1653
01:02:45,829 --> 01:02:44,160
but the very existence of the atrocities

1654
01:02:47,910 --> 01:02:45,839
because they are every bit as black as

1655
01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:47,920
those endured by victims of fascist war

1656
01:02:56,789 --> 01:02:53,910
which as we know alexander would

1657
01:02:58,309 --> 01:02:56,799
probably sort of dismiss as necessary if

1658
01:03:01,190 --> 01:02:58,319
you knew the whole story about how

1659
01:03:03,990 --> 01:03:01,200
worried people were about everything

1660
01:03:05,829 --> 01:03:04,000
constantine sort of says this

1661
01:03:08,309 --> 01:03:05,839
sort of parallel between the millaps

1662
01:03:10,549 --> 01:03:08,319
thing and other atrocities that have

1663
01:03:12,390 --> 01:03:10,559
been committed by governments is kind of

1664
01:03:14,390 --> 01:03:12,400
the whole point

1665
01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:14,400
but this is the issue here isn't it

1666
01:03:18,950 --> 01:03:16,559
alexander the intelligence agencies you

1667
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:18,960
work for are beyond criminal journalist

1668
01:03:24,309 --> 01:03:22,400
penny lerneux reported that 1967 the cia

1669
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:24,319
dropped napalm on guatemalan indians

1670
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:25,920
because the oil companies wanted to pump

1671
01:03:29,829 --> 01:03:28,000
the petroleum beneath their land the

1672
01:03:31,270 --> 01:03:29,839
natives were burned alive and the oil

1673
01:03:32,710 --> 01:03:31,280
companies purchased the extraction

1674
01:03:34,870 --> 01:03:32,720
rights from puppets in the guatemalan

1675
01:03:36,870 --> 01:03:34,880
government at low cost when asked about

1676
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:36,880
this episode the cia does not shrug and

1677
01:03:41,270 --> 01:03:38,960
admit yes we killed those indians for

1678
01:03:43,349 --> 01:03:41,280
the oil the response is

1679
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:43,359
there is not one scintilla of concrete

1680
01:03:52,309 --> 01:03:50,150
he's not wrong and and here's the thing

1681
01:03:54,230 --> 01:03:52,319
you can almost look at it as though or

1682
01:03:55,270 --> 01:03:54,240
as if the millaps

1683
01:03:56,230 --> 01:03:55,280
stuff

1684
01:03:59,029 --> 01:03:56,240
is not

1685
01:04:00,390 --> 01:03:59,039
the main event the millabs thing is a

1686
01:04:01,270 --> 01:04:00,400
symptom

1687
01:04:03,829 --> 01:04:01,280
of

1688
01:04:07,190 --> 01:04:03,839
a systemic

1689
01:04:08,630 --> 01:04:07,200
horribleness in the military

1690
01:04:09,829 --> 01:04:08,640
intelligence

1691
01:04:11,270 --> 01:04:09,839
industrial

1692
01:04:14,150 --> 01:04:11,280
complex

1693
01:04:17,670 --> 01:04:14,160
constantine finishes with

1694
01:04:19,670 --> 01:04:17,680
a flourish i guess we could call it

1695
01:04:21,750 --> 01:04:19,680
alexander's denial has been circulated

1696
01:04:23,990 --> 01:04:21,760
to some of the victims of milab he would

1697
01:04:26,309 --> 01:04:24,000
appear less a nazi i suppose if he

1698
01:04:28,630 --> 01:04:26,319
refused comment but to expose himself in

1699
01:04:30,789 --> 01:04:28,640
mengele ease as a liar snatching at the

1700
01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:30,799
no evidence straw well only a

1701
01:04:34,230 --> 01:04:32,400
representative from the criminalized

1702
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:34,240
intelligence services would protest too

1703
01:04:37,670 --> 01:04:36,240
much because any other course would

1704
01:04:39,829 --> 01:04:37,680
expose the rot

1705
01:04:42,150 --> 01:04:39,839
why waste our time climb back in your

1706
01:04:43,829 --> 01:04:42,160
hole john alexander and exercise your

1707
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:43,839
pathologies with an understanding that

1708
01:04:48,309 --> 01:04:46,240
many of us out here on the net know you

1709
01:04:51,990 --> 01:04:48,319
as an occultic concubine of fascist

1710
01:04:56,349 --> 01:04:55,510
concubine of fascist sugar daddies that

1711
01:04:57,910 --> 01:04:56,359
is

1712
01:04:58,710 --> 01:04:57,920
outstanding

1713
01:05:01,029 --> 01:04:58,720
um

1714
01:05:02,950 --> 01:05:01,039
he really does go for it here and

1715
01:05:04,470 --> 01:05:02,960
there's an anger

1716
01:05:07,190 --> 01:05:04,480
i was gonna say beneath the surface but

1717
01:05:09,750 --> 01:05:07,200
no the anger is is very much right there

1718
01:05:12,549 --> 01:05:09,760
on top of the surface absolutely no

1719
01:05:15,270 --> 01:05:12,559
question about that it's very

1720
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:15,280
very fascinating to see

1721
01:05:21,270 --> 01:05:18,480
and i should note you know alongside

1722
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:21,280
alexander's denials that anything like

1723
01:05:25,270 --> 01:05:23,760
what lammer talks about exists that

1724
01:05:27,510 --> 01:05:25,280
around the same time lamer's book came

1725
01:05:30,150 --> 01:05:27,520
out illuminet also published a book by

1726
01:05:33,270 --> 01:05:30,160
jim keith mass control engineering human

1727
01:05:35,349 --> 01:05:33,280
consciousness which identified work that

1728
01:05:37,750 --> 01:05:35,359
alexander was doing at the time and

1729
01:05:39,270 --> 01:05:37,760
presenting at conferences on and it's

1730
01:05:41,430 --> 01:05:39,280
very much in line with some of the

1731
01:05:42,549 --> 01:05:41,440
things lammer discussed in his mill labs

1732
01:05:45,750 --> 01:05:42,559
work

1733
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:45,760
for a little while i thought about

1734
01:05:50,630 --> 01:05:47,920
doing an episode about john alexander

1735
01:05:53,109 --> 01:05:50,640
but after doing this episode

1736
01:05:54,309 --> 01:05:53,119
um just with with this amount that i've

1737
01:05:55,750 --> 01:05:54,319
i've

1738
01:05:57,670 --> 01:05:55,760
looked into

1739
01:05:59,430 --> 01:05:57,680
this stuff i don't want to spend any

1740
01:06:01,510 --> 01:05:59,440
more time with john alexander i just

1741
01:06:04,950 --> 01:06:01,520
don't feel like that's something that

1742
01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:04,960
would be good for my uh for my mental or

1743
01:06:08,870 --> 01:06:06,720
emotional health

1744
01:06:10,630 --> 01:06:08,880
so to conclude this look at

1745
01:06:13,190 --> 01:06:10,640
helmut lammer's mill labs someone on

1746
01:06:16,230 --> 01:06:13,200
facebook after the first part of the

1747
01:06:17,990 --> 01:06:16,240
sequence on this asked if we're sure

1748
01:06:20,390 --> 01:06:18,000
that this is the same lammer who is a

1749
01:06:22,230 --> 01:06:20,400
space scientist in austria and i believe

1750
01:06:23,829 --> 01:06:22,240
alexander connecting the two jobs and

1751
01:06:27,430 --> 01:06:23,839
the ruffled feathers press really sort

1752
01:06:30,150 --> 01:06:27,440
of confirmed that but to be clear lammer

1753
01:06:33,910 --> 01:06:30,160
space scientist lammer is out of the ufo

1754
01:06:37,510 --> 01:06:33,920
abduction field back in 2011 or so

1755
01:06:40,069 --> 01:06:37,520
somebody from the old ufo updates email

1756
01:06:41,910 --> 01:06:40,079
list that was run by errol bruce knapp

1757
01:06:44,789 --> 01:06:41,920
got in touch with lammer and asked his

1758
01:06:46,630 --> 01:06:44,799
opinion about an article that he had

1759
01:06:48,710 --> 01:06:46,640
written which is you know one of the

1760
01:06:52,230 --> 01:06:48,720
sort of condensed internet versions of

1761
01:06:55,670 --> 01:06:52,240
the mufon article and lammer did reply

1762
01:06:57,190 --> 01:06:55,680
explaining his current situation

1763
01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:57,200
please note that i've not been involved

1764
01:07:00,870 --> 01:06:58,720
in this kind of private research for

1765
01:07:02,630 --> 01:07:00,880
more than 10 years and the content of

1766
01:07:05,610 --> 01:07:02,640
the article does not reflect my present

1767
01:07:08,230 --> 01:07:05,620
day opinion best wishes helmut lammer

1768
01:07:09,990 --> 01:07:08,240
[Music]

1769
01:07:12,549 --> 01:07:10,000
and further to that

1770
01:07:15,349 --> 01:07:12,559
in addition to it not being you know his

1771
01:07:17,430 --> 01:07:15,359
current opinion a few years later hakan

1772
01:07:19,910 --> 01:07:17,440
blomquist of the archives for the

1773
01:07:22,630 --> 01:07:19,920
unexplained and i butchered that name um

1774
01:07:25,510 --> 01:07:22,640
if anybody knows the fella and he hears

1775
01:07:28,470 --> 01:07:25,520
this tell him i'm sorry um

1776
01:07:31,829 --> 01:07:28,480
so mr blomquist of the archives for the

1777
01:07:34,470 --> 01:07:31,839
unexplained got in contact with lammer

1778
01:07:37,190 --> 01:07:34,480
inquiring about his records and whether

1779
01:07:39,430 --> 01:07:37,200
they might be donatable

1780
01:07:41,670 --> 01:07:39,440
in april 2011 i wrote to dr lammer

1781
01:07:42,870 --> 01:07:41,680
asking for more data on his research he

1782
01:07:44,630 --> 01:07:42,880
very kindly told me that he had

1783
01:07:46,630 --> 01:07:44,640
abandoned all research on abductions and

1784
01:07:48,710 --> 01:07:46,640
mind control and had no further interest

1785
01:07:50,549 --> 01:07:48,720
in the subject i then asked if he would

1786
01:07:53,349 --> 01:07:50,559
consider donating his research material

1787
01:07:54,950 --> 01:07:53,359
and archive to afu i was quite surprised

1788
01:07:57,109 --> 01:07:54,960
when told that his entire archive had

1789
01:07:58,630 --> 01:07:57,119
been thrown away why would a scientist

1790
01:08:01,450 --> 01:07:58,640
destroy the result of many years of

1791
01:08:03,829 --> 01:08:01,460
research was the subject too sensitive

1792
01:08:06,710 --> 01:08:03,839
[Music]

1793
01:08:10,150 --> 01:08:06,720
now i'm not saying that this is

1794
01:08:12,470 --> 01:08:10,160
on the same level as al bender's we

1795
01:08:15,029 --> 01:08:12,480
advise those engaged in saucer research

1796
01:08:17,829 --> 01:08:15,039
to please be very careful

1797
01:08:20,149 --> 01:08:17,839
but it is kind of it is kind of strange

1798
01:08:22,550 --> 01:08:20,159
and people have in various places on the

1799
01:08:24,709 --> 01:08:22,560
internet played the whole was he being

1800
01:08:26,470 --> 01:08:24,719
threatened card and

1801
01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:26,480
i don't have any evidence of that i

1802
01:08:30,309 --> 01:08:28,000
don't have any evidence that that

1803
01:08:32,950 --> 01:08:30,319
anything untoward happened to him i

1804
01:08:34,630 --> 01:08:32,960
think it probably brought more attention

1805
01:08:37,349 --> 01:08:34,640
to him than he would have liked

1806
01:08:40,309 --> 01:08:37,359
especially with his very sort of

1807
01:08:42,630 --> 01:08:40,319
prestigious scientific and academic

1808
01:08:44,149 --> 01:08:42,640
appointments that could be really

1809
01:08:46,149 --> 01:08:44,159
irritating on a personal and

1810
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:46,159
professional level to deal with

1811
01:08:49,829 --> 01:08:47,440
um

1812
01:08:53,110 --> 01:08:49,839
i think it's well established that

1813
01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:53,120
working in the ufo field

1814
01:08:57,590 --> 01:08:54,880
if especially if you're not somebody

1815
01:09:00,950 --> 01:08:57,600
who's you know who's decided to make a

1816
01:09:02,550 --> 01:09:00,960
living at being in the ufo field can be

1817
01:09:05,030 --> 01:09:02,560
very sort of

1818
01:09:08,309 --> 01:09:05,040
arduous and stressful and you deal with

1819
01:09:10,870 --> 01:09:08,319
a lot of interesting people and

1820
01:09:12,950 --> 01:09:10,880
i can imagine that he just got tired of

1821
01:09:13,910 --> 01:09:12,960
dealing with these very interesting

1822
01:09:15,269 --> 01:09:13,920
people

1823
01:09:17,349 --> 01:09:15,279
so at the end of all this what do i

1824
01:09:20,229 --> 01:09:17,359
think not that you need me to think

1825
01:09:22,390 --> 01:09:20,239
anything i'm not here to solve the mlab

1826
01:09:25,910 --> 01:09:22,400
question i'm here to present this little

1827
01:09:29,349 --> 01:09:25,920
slice of research uh to the best of my

1828
01:09:31,590 --> 01:09:29,359
ability and because listener mark asked

1829
01:09:32,630 --> 01:09:31,600
me to and bought me the book

1830
01:09:35,189 --> 01:09:32,640
but i think

1831
01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:35,199
what i come away from this thinking is

1832
01:09:38,709 --> 01:09:36,480
that

1833
01:09:40,149 --> 01:09:38,719
the millabs project much like

1834
01:09:43,349 --> 01:09:40,159
constantine's

1835
01:09:45,349 --> 01:09:43,359
response to john alexander the millaps

1836
01:09:46,149 --> 01:09:45,359
project highlights

1837
01:09:47,590 --> 01:09:46,159
the

1838
01:09:48,789 --> 01:09:47,600
long history

1839
01:09:50,709 --> 01:09:48,799
of

1840
01:09:51,990 --> 01:09:50,719
government and military and intelligence

1841
01:09:53,349 --> 01:09:52,000
chicanery

1842
01:09:55,669 --> 01:09:53,359
and

1843
01:09:58,950 --> 01:09:55,679
i kind of wonder if

1844
01:10:01,350 --> 01:09:58,960
that's a story that is best told

1845
01:10:04,470 --> 01:10:01,360
by people who have no interest in or

1846
01:10:07,510 --> 01:10:04,480
connection to the ufo or alien question

1847
01:10:09,110 --> 01:10:07,520
whatsoever because i'm not saying this

1848
01:10:10,550 --> 01:10:09,120
is a good thing i'm not saying this is a

1849
01:10:11,430 --> 01:10:10,560
virtuous thing

1850
01:10:15,350 --> 01:10:11,440
but

1851
01:10:18,630 --> 01:10:15,360
anytime you connect a topic to ufos and

1852
01:10:21,830 --> 01:10:18,640
alien abductions and hypnotic regression

1853
01:10:24,310 --> 01:10:21,840
you run the risk of discrediting

1854
01:10:26,790 --> 01:10:24,320
that topic and

1855
01:10:28,630 --> 01:10:26,800
some things are too serious to be mixed

1856
01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:28,640
up with flying saucers

1857
01:10:33,510 --> 01:10:31,120
that's just my opinion um

1858
01:10:35,350 --> 01:10:33,520
but the book did make me think the

1859
01:10:37,110 --> 01:10:35,360
articles the mufon articles in the book

1860
01:10:39,669 --> 01:10:37,120
did make me think i found them

1861
01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:39,679
intriguing and i urge you to check out

1862
01:10:48,310 --> 01:10:42,000
those mufon articles and i will try to

1863
01:10:52,630 --> 01:10:50,950
next time contact these in japan thank

1864
01:10:53,990 --> 01:10:52,640
you for listening remember to send in

1865
01:10:55,910 --> 01:10:54,000
your questions and comments via the

1866
01:10:58,630 --> 01:10:55,920
usual social media or email channels and

1867
01:11:00,470 --> 01:10:58,640
we'll address them next week

1868
01:11:02,310 --> 01:11:00,480
our associate producer is simpson j

1869
01:11:05,270 --> 01:11:02,320
hanover iii and the saucer life is a

1870
01:11:08,149 --> 01:11:05,280
production of chiso media chizomedia our

1871
01:11:09,830 --> 01:11:08,159
heart is with the people till next time